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In this episode, we talk with Jim Marsh of Swell Watercraft.
Jim is a long time veteran of the paddlesports industry having started as a river guide in Jackson Hole before moving on to being publisher of some of the biggest magazines in the industry.
Jim’s journey lead him to founding Swell Watercraft – a sit on top kayak company that manufactures, sells and ships performance sit on top kayaks from their factory in Ellsworth, Iowa.
In our discussion, Jim takes us through some of the challenges he’s faced as a business owner, new product lines geared toward fleet and kayak tour providers, the lengths he’s gone to in order to get partners for his dealer network and more.
We hope you’ll take a listen. If you are looking for a great sit on top kayak, you should give Jim Marsh a call or visit his website.
Website: https://swellwatercraft.com/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Swellwatercraft/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/swellwatercraft/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCY9jJG3GTHvj4D4_5LGxMCQ
Here’s the Transcript:
Jim Marsh – Swell Watercraft on the Biz Tool Store podcast.
[00:00:00]
Welcome to the Biz Tool Store podcast. This is Tay Musslewhite, and on today’s episode, we’re talking with Jim Marsh from Swell Watercraft, a company that designs manufacturers and ships sit on top kayaks from their factory in Ellsworth, Iowa. Jim takes us through the evolution of his business, from his partnership with Tim Neimeyer, the godfather of sit on top kayaks, their patented scupper valve, the evolution of their product line, building his factory in Iowa.
Building a dealer network and his advice to business owners when things get crazy. I really love the fact that this is a made in the USA story. Jim is not only candid about the struggles of running a manufacturing business, but also about his passion and a [00:01:00] life-changing why that is the heart and soul of swell.
Without further ado, here’s my interview with Jim Marsh from Swell Watercraft.
Introduction
Tay Musslewhite: Where are you today as we connect
Jim: coming to you from Ellsworth, Iowa here, and the swell watercraft factory and the swell watercraft headquarters here, which is my
Tay Musslewhite: Nice
Jim: 10 by 10 office that I’ve, built here.
Tay Musslewhite: So actually that’s, well, I had planned to get into it a little bit later, but tell me about that. So
What Is Swell Watercraft?
Tay Musslewhite: what is swell watercraft, you’re manufacturing fantastic, like ocean going kayaks. Like you have fans in Puerto Rico, you have fans across the country and a lot of them live on the coast.
So you’re manufacturing, factoring ocean, going sit on top kayaks in Ellsworth, Iowa. So how did that happen?
Jim: that’s the key is to sit on top Kayak is that come out [00:02:00] with some boats that, are super good in your local lake or your local river, but they’re also gonna be able to handle salt water, waves, currents. and rough conditions coast and in salt water and that there are sit on tops, not sit inside kayaks. And what we’ve done here with swell is we developed a, a little piece of technology that is a drainage valve allows the sit on top kayak to be your feet and your butt to be dropped down about three and a half inches lower than any other sit on top kayak that was ever made previous. See a sit on top kayak has drainage holes in it throughout. And so the wa any water that that kind of comes in can drain straight through the boat, but that puts you kind of high up in the kayak and, [00:03:00] high centered. Is a, a term we’re all familiar with, with, with cars and, and off-roading or whatnot, but you, you don’t want your weight higher than it needs to be.
So what we’ve done is dropped the butt and the feet and the weight of the paddle. There’s so much lower into the cockpit that this thing is about three inches less wide than anything else on the planet. So it’s faster, it turns better it’s actually super comfortable as well because you’ve got that inches between where your butt is and where your feet are, which gives you an angle in your knee that of these other sit on tops just weren’t able to provide.
So it’s lower back pain. Is what you get when your knees are locked and when your knees are bit, you get a little more comfort and ability to lean forward and, [00:04:00] and paddle all day.
Tay Musslewhite: It’s interesting ’cause when I think about a kayak that I would take, on an ocean or like I live close to Lake Michigan, I think of an enclosed kayak where. You have to squeeze in and you have a spray skirt and stuff. And when I talk to people about that, like it’s kind of scary, right? Like it, you have to know how to roll or, if you temped over, you get, you gotta get out of it if you can’t roll.
is that a fundamental difference with the sit on top? Is that it’s just that much easier.
Jim: on tops, have. Been embraced from the beginning. And the reason is if you fall out, you can pull yourself right up back on top of it like a surfboard and sit back in it and go. Now any kind of cockpit kayak is gonna fill up like a tub with water so that not gonna have any [00:05:00] stability left.
By the time you get your butt back in it and get it upright, you’re not gonna be able to paddle it away. So that’s where sit on tops have in the eighties and reallydecimated cock cockpit kayaking as it pertains to the ocean. just because of the danger level of being a mile off coast flipping over and not being able to get back in that cockpit and paddle away even
Tay Musslewhite: Yeah.
Jim: even if you have. Somebody there with you. the problem always is if you got knocked out, that’s probably because there’s rough weather happening already. There’s waves and stuff lapping, so now it’s harder to get back in a cockpit kayak.
Tay Musslewhite: Yeah.
Jim: the sit on top, generally you could pull yourself back in.
Certainly if he had someone aiding you, anyone could pull themselves back in.
Tay Musslewhite: Yeah,
Jim: aspect there that’s made sit on tops kind of [00:06:00] explode.
Tay Musslewhite: yeah.
Jim: no disrespect to that. I, I love that type of paddling myself too. And whitewater paddling as well, in, in cockpit kayaks. Love it. but this is kind of. When you, I think when I reflect on it historically, then I have to think about how we got started as a company and how Nehemiah himself started Ocean Kayak, rotomolded, the first plastic sit on top kayak ever with the holes the sit on top for drainage, which are called scupper holes to this day. boat was called the Ocean Kayak Scupper back in 1983. And when he first, when he first started Roto Molding. Tim, is a big part of the impetus of swell watercraft as well.
he’s a huge part of the [00:07:00] story.
Tay Musslewhite: Along the lines of your story,
Jim’s Background
Tay Musslewhite: what’s your background? How did you, come to be, manufacturing kayaks in Iowa? you talked about whitewater kayaking, so it sounds like you have a history of doing that. what’s your progression? How did you get here?
Jim: I didn’t do it deliberately at all. It wasn’t a plan,
Tay Musslewhite: I hear a story here.
Jim: I ran canoe Kayak Magazine, the world’s biggest paddling magazine for10 years. And worked at Paddler Magazine for five years before that, so 15 years total in that space. And when I worked there, I was able to visits to see some of the larger kayak manufacturers, actual factories go through and tour visit them, and kind of started, figuring out what the whole marketplace was all about.
Tay Musslewhite: Yeah.
Jim: getting extremely [00:08:00] interested in what they were doing, how they were positioning, and I guess how they were making money
Tay Musslewhite: Yeah.
How Swell Watercraft Was Born
Jim: Flash forward to, 2015. the job’s wearing on me at the magazine. It’s a print magazine. I feel like there’s a countdown for that company to figure itself out.
Tay Musslewhite: Yeah.
Jim: it, in reality, I really wasn’t getting it hundred percent figured out. My father passed away and a few weeks after that I just decided I was gonna leave that magazine and that put me into like a year of, I guess, trying to figure myself out. And eventually got into a conversation with Tim Nehemiah at an outdoor retailer trade show in Salt Lake City about. A newer, [00:09:00] better Scupper Pro Kayak, which was something that something I was very familiar with especially based on this article that was written called Why Are All the Made for Fat Guys? And the, the fictitious author name of that was called Uncle Scupper, it or not. So throwing back to that original kayak that they liked so much, it to what’s being made today and how fat and clumsy and, and heavy and, and cumbersome and hard to turn slow these new boats kind of are. it’s the funniest thing we ever printed in the magazine. I’m forgetting the authors.
Tay Musslewhite: You printed in at Canoe and Kayak.
Jim: a hundred percent
Tay Musslewhite: Oh, that’s awesome.
Jim: this fictitious name. And then the guy’s name is not coming to me right [00:10:00] now. If he’s out there, he’s probably like, how come you can’t remember my name? But he is my Facebook friend he is lives down in Houston paddles the Gulf, and super cool, funny guy.
that got us all sort of up to speed on the history of the scupper, the Scupper Pro and all that. And in my conversation with Tim, he, he had this idea to lower the cockpit and, and kind of supercharge the performance in this kayak. So I joined him in it.
I was the financial backer, a hundred percent of the project. From the outset, we brought in this guy named Adam Bishan right away who could do. CAD drawings and the three of us kind of took it on and there’s videos about designing the Scupper 14 that just feature me, Adam and Tim doing prototype after prototype. developing the valves, which ended up being [00:11:00] the bigger chore involved, wasn’t
Tay Musslewhite: Yeah,
Jim: In fact, we got the kayak done. After four prototypes of the kayak, we got that thing done and the valve still really wasn’t where we wanted it to get. And in the end it was just Adam and I kind of struggling to get the valve to full functionality, full manufacturer ready kind of product. And we got that out there in 2019.
Tay Musslewhite: Just. To clarify that is your scupper valve, like, and that is, I believe you have a patent on it.
Jim: I’ve
Tay Musslewhite: that is kind of the beauty of your boats, Is that it’s what you were talking about earlier, because you’ve sunk, you’ve sunk the weight below the water line, but that scupper valve lets the water drain out.
Correct?
Jim: A hundred percent.
Tay Musslewhite: Yeah.
Jim: it’s not a mechanical [00:12:00] thing so it actually takes human power to initiate it. And it’s a little valve, which I don’t have one in front of me, but it’s a little valve got. Essentially what looks like a polypropylene ball.
Inside of it, it looks like a ping pong ball.
Tay Musslewhite: Mm-hmm.
Jim: We use the Venturi effect to up the boat. Generally when you get, like with the 14, you get to about four and a half knots, which is really flying.
Tay Musslewhite: Sorry.
Jim: A sprint level speed, that ball is the, your cockpit’s full of water at this point. And we’re gonna try to drain it, right, so that ball
Tay Musslewhite: Yeah.
Jim: will drop down as there’s a little bit of an eddy behind the valve itself and all this, hydraulics will actually suck the water out of the cockpit into the river lake, wherever you’re, you’re [00:13:00] paddling. Andclear the cockpit out of water up to about like maybe a half inches left.
And then you kind of, generally you wanna stop and unless you’re like Greg Barton with your Olympic medals and you’ve got that kind of power to power all that water out. But that’s how the system works. It’s a utility patent we actually have on it. So we got 15 years of clearance to clear the lane, shall we say,
Tay Musslewhite: Yeah.
Jim: and develop that product. There’s lots of applications for it. With motor boats and other kinds of things that we haven’t been able to get to yet, just because I think we’re limited developing a factory, making, developing kayaks. I mean, we’re doing a lot of stuff here, right? But that
Tay Musslewhite: Yeah. I mean, you just said. Has it always been, have you always been in Iowa?
Jim: no, we developed the [00:14:00] Scupper 14 purely on the
Tay Musslewhite: I.
Jim: And so Puget Sound in San Juan Islands is like island to island. every and a half you’re reaching another island. Jumping out. You’ve got strong currents. You’ve gotnot Hawaii type wave conditions, but you’re in salt water and you gotta stay on your toes.
And so we developed it there and we actually moved our manufacturing over to South Africa fairly quickly.
Tay Musslewhite: Okay.
Jim: there’s a guy named SLE Krueger that’s well known for fluid kayaks and vagabond kayaks. And now he’s with a brand new thing called Leer so he’s developed just a ton of, of models throughout the years, but he also had a manufacturing facility in South Africa for a while, and so I was manufacturing there and LY is my buddy. So we made a plan early [00:15:00] on to onto, bring manufacturing to the USA how we could utilize of his expertise and custom rock and roll oven stuff that he’s done, like a perfect hexagram that, that makes a kayak really, really well. That’s, that’s really good for specific things. So, ended up putting a lot of metal together and got a whole container full of it. And then it was just like figuring out how to piece it all together to make our own roto mold oven here in the United States in Iowa. but that was it. That’s a kind of. Long at, like me and Sly working from 2020 to really till now. So
Tay Musslewhite: Wow.[00:16:00]
Jim: did my manufacturing. He used to he’s done some design work on some of the boats he was able to make plans for our rock and roll roto rotational molding plastic oven that we have here. Helped me put all that together and, and kind of execute that plan. So we kind of had that plan together for like five years to do all that. we moved to, we couldn’t stay in Washington. I mean, you, you wouldn’t, it’s a shipping game kayaks and you wouldn’t wanna expensive items from Washington when biggest markets in. Really in the world are, are like down in Florida and South Carolina, North Carolina, Virginia, some of the, some of the volume of the kayaks are gonna head in that direction, like it or not. With the population and everything. And so we had to move it [00:17:00] east. We wanted to find a community that would work with us to maybe try to get like a low interest loan put our building down. We first went and we talked to, people in the Chicago suburbs,
Tay Musslewhite: Mm-hmm.
Jim: that’s where I’m originally from. And that’s where my brother’s originally from, my business partner and his
Tay Musslewhite: Okay.
Jim: She’s originally from Morris, we’re originally from Sandwich Illinois. so we were looking around there and trying to put a factory up there and we couldn’t get the low interest loan because we didn’t qualify, essentially because they didn’t have these kind of programs for white males that time.
Tay Musslewhite: Interesting.
Jim: my brother and his wife actually live in Ames, Iowa. So they put out the exact same kind of inquiry in Ames that we were putting out in the Chicago suburbs. And [00:18:00] they have no such rules at all about minorities or whatever over here. I mean, it’s a low. Percentage of minorities that live here, so that we got ourselves a $500,000 loan at 2% interest from Midland Power and Corn Power Development Associations. So we got our, that’s a pretty good leg up for us. Also, we raised some funds in 2022 on Wefunder
Tay Musslewhite: huh.
Jim: there. And we applied that money the building in the development of this property as well. And now we’ve got to the point where it’s up and running and functional and yeah, that’s just kinda where we’re at.
Tay Musslewhite: That’s awesome. So from hearing you right, you were manufacturing [00:19:00] your boats in South Africa,
Jim: Right.
Tay Musslewhite: starting in, 2019 or 2020.
Jim: 20 will be late, late 2019, when we got
Tay Musslewhite: And so wait, was that during COVID?
Jim: I just got myself out of there right before COVID, kicked off. we didn’t know about COVID. it must have been February of 2020 that I made a trip there. there was talk in the news about COVID I remember actually getting on the plane and leaving, and when I left, there was a lot more news about COVID happening, There were people wearing masks and everybody was on high alert about COVID. then I got home and the lockdown started.
Tay Musslewhite: Wow.
Jim: the factory and I had to have my jab, you know, my vaccine and I had to have my card to get in the country and all that.
So it, yeah, when I went back for a visit then, then must have been probably two [00:20:00] years later, or a year and a half later
Tay Musslewhite: So I’m not a manufacturer, but when I think about COVID, you heard all this stuff about supply chains and craziness. How did it affect your business?
COVID & Supply Chain Chaos
Jim: we got, we got crushed really in, in a lot of levels during, during, during COVID, because we got over there to. South Africa. And what started happening is it, it real, actually at the time it wasn’t as bad as being in China because Chinese containers, like if you were gonna import a container China, it went from like $2,000 to like $20,000. Just to just, yeah, I mean it was, it was shocking. But in South Africa, I want to say it went from like two $2,500 to like [00:21:00] $8,500. Like it just got super expensive. then the problem was that they would have me booked up. have all my kayaks in a container and everything, and then it just wouldn’t leave, it wouldn’t get on a ship I think it was like highest bidder could buy out the con, ships. I kept getting
Tay Musslewhite: Wow.
Jim: and then they’d put me on a ship. The ship would go to London, and then it would take a long ass time just getting out of there Essentially had for the Panama Canal and it’s taken long ass time and the Panama Canal just being blocked back ship, ship, ship, ship.
you could actually track it and see it and go up to Mexico, hit the west coast, maybe Veracruz or whatever, and then take a forever to get in and out because their ships were lined up to get unloaded and just waiting out there, just spinning circles [00:22:00] in the bay. And we couldn’t get product on time.
We couldn’t deliver we couldn’t capitalize on what some of the retailers wanted us to do. We were like the hot new thing at that time. Had some great reviews online and, people were ready to go with it and we just couldn’t provide for them ’cause we’re, selling some direct and just having the whole container out. I hated it. I think the customers hated it. And,
Tay Musslewhite: Wait, so these are pre-sold kayaks that you’re building in South Africa and you’re thinking things are normal. You’ve priced them, at regular shipping rates, and then all of a sudden it’s a free for all, and your shipping went from 2,500 bucks to like 8,500 bucks.
Jim: taking a
Tay Musslewhite: So what was that like from, a customer service experience? How, what [00:23:00] was, like, what do you remember about it?
Jim: taking a bath on my profit. Before I even get
Tay Musslewhite: Yeah.
Jim: kind of last second, and the customers are angry because I gave them what I thought was a realistic ex time expectation. And I was so wrong, was off like a half a year or more, right? So these people have given me the money and they’re upset. And so one day I sent them all an email and it was just about like, this is how you can track your container ship. You can track every ship. Container ship in the world, you can count how many ships are sitting outside of Los Angeles. There’s 212. I just counted them, And so you’re tapping into this and you’re following your ship in particular as it goes to London. And, all of a sudden I started getting all this amazing feedback [00:24:00] about tracking the ships. All of a sudden, the subject wasn’t about getting the kayaks, it was about tracking the ships. And
Tay Musslewhite: Oh my gosh.
Jim: I made so many friends and had so many discussions what it’s like to track these ships and, how all of us collectively were gonna own the shipping delay. Then it was off of small water crabs back for a second and
Tay Musslewhite: Wow.
Jim: happy to wait they got to track their ship, which they felt, was amazing experience. And so that was
Turning a Crisis Into Connection
Jim: an
Tay Musslewhite: what a way to flip that huge problem on its head because like, as you said, you’rejust getting started people have already given you their money and then you’ve told them one date and then you keep having to tell ’em different dates I mean, it’d be pretty easy from a consumer’s [00:25:00] perspective to start thinking that they’d just thrown their money away.
Right?
Jim: Yeah. I think that’s the power of positive energy. it’s the only thing you’ve got left when you’ve totally screwed up. sometimes you’ve gotta lean on that to try to come up with a fresh idea, or a new way to deliver the information. I know I found myself throughout my life just. taking all the blame on myself. And generally it’s like you just get the crappy response that you, put out there. the only thing that’s left when things are dark and you’ve screwed up, and if you’re gonna start a business, this is gonna happen. The only thing that’s left is your positive energy. So sometimes you gotta straighten your mind out and just start brainstorming to keep moving and keep doing things.
Tay Musslewhite: Yeah,
Jim: if they’re good, do ’em.
Tay Musslewhite: yeah. Well, let’s talk about that keeping moving, because when you [00:26:00] were, this was all if, if I have the story straight, this was all for the Scupper 14, but now there’s way more than the Scupper 14 right now.
The Full Lineup
Tay Musslewhite: Talk to me about your lineup and like kind of where you are and where you’re going as far as products for representing the Swell brand.
Jim: Yeah, yeah. The next originally Tim Nehemiah or Adam Bishan and me, and we all just agreed, there’s a 12 foot, 14 foot, and a 16 foot version of these boats, and that’s what we’re gonna do. And this is day one.
Tay Musslewhite: Wow.
Jim: very on what we wanted to do. was saying first one’s gotta be the 14. I know it. I know at my heart, that’s gonna be the biggest seller of the best. It’s gonna fit the most people get the most people activated right away that, that want, that are already contacting him on the phone who want him to, to [00:27:00] do this. Right.
Tay Musslewhite: Okay.
Jim: They want the performance back. And so, I, Adam Bishan who finished the 14 really and is a CAD designer and a brilliant engineer, he did the 12. He and I did the 12 together. We got that out in 2021. Again, during COVID and the. Scupper 16 didn’t see life until 2024 actually. Krueger, the South African guy, he and I developed the 16 model together. we got that thing, debuted in like March of 2024. So it hasn’t been around for very long. There’s three in that series. You got stopper 12, 14, 16 again, day one, hour one. We agreed that that’s what the three of us thought we should do.
It ended up actually happening that way. And [00:28:00] they’re all kind of popular in different ways, somewhat with different people in different areas, I think.
Tay Musslewhite: Yeah.
Jim: now what we’re doing is we developed the Outfitter series. The Outfitter series is. It’s gonna be a lower price point, whereas the Scupper series isthe most expensive version of these types of boats really.
Tay Musslewhite: Yeah.
Jim: alone, doesn’t have a lot of competition.
Tay Musslewhite: Mm-hmm.
Jim: boat. got the outfitter series coming out, which is gonna be kind of on the lower end. So an $800 single and a thousand dollars for a two person tandem, kayak. And when developed these with John Emoto from Go Bananas in Honolulu, Hawaii. John was part of the initial conversation with Tim Nemeyer and Adam Bishan, believe it or not. like literally we kind of got cranking and [00:29:00] Nehemiah in like the second meeting is like, you guys gotta talk this guy John Enmoto. he, he’s rented over a hundred thousand units, kayaks in Honolulu, So when it came to rent.
Tay Musslewhite: So He’s a someone who has a fleet and has been doing this for a long time. Rental kayak.
Jim: Yeah. So,
Tay Musslewhite: and so using his expertise to make these,
Jim: Yeah. And quite frankly, I wanted to, I wanted these boats to be. Good in places like Santa Barbara, California or orange County or Hawaii. Really rough conditions where beautiful trips happen, but stripped down and affordable kind of made to the specs of a wreck rental livery out the,
Tay Musslewhite: Yeah.
Jim: who John
Tay Musslewhite: Yeah.
Jim: And so John John put his expertise in [00:30:00] and we started that design work, I mean, probably a year and a half ago. I would say that we finished the duo literally a week ago.
Tay Musslewhite: the two person recreational kayak you finished like a week ago?
Jim: yeah, I mean,
Tay Musslewhite: Yeah.
Jim: We had images of basically what it was, and we published those images and we’re like, here it is, But then we mess with the floor and, we just weren’t done perfecting, different things. worked with a couple different CAD designers on that and just kind of had different people looking at it we didn’t prototype that one.
And so what you’re really trying to do is out what happens when a fat guy or a skinny guy or someone in between gets in this boat and paddles it. And what happens when they catch a 25 pound fish and they put it in the tank wall.
Tay Musslewhite: Yeah.
Jim: doing when we disperse all this weight?
And, [00:31:00] what’s it like when 40 pounds of water is actually a huge wave is just come in,
Tay Musslewhite: Yeah.
Jim: weight to do is this gonna work for? So it didn’t really, a lot of it didn’t affect the end look of it and stuff.
So again, like I said, we published those images, this is what it’s gonna look like, and then we, we still wanted to get the floor, at an angle, at a certain height and, and things like that. So a 230 pound guy can, can paddle this single for instance.
Tay Musslewhite: Yeah.
Jim: So,
Tay Musslewhite: Wow, that’s amazing.
Jim: put those
Tay Musslewhite: now
Jim: we’re gonna put those out in 2026.
So I’m literally. the molds in 10 days and they’ll be made in China, which is just kind of how these things happen. It’s where stuff gets made tariff or no tariff.
Tay Musslewhite: the molds will be in China. Be made in China, but you’re building these boats in Iowa, right?
Jim: yeah,[00:32:00]
Tay Musslewhite: Yeah, yeah.
Jim: The mold is like a 1000 pound version of, of the kayak that you press the plastic into and it’s really expensive piece of, piece of deal. And we’re getting the single in a double at the same time. And they might be, they might get ’em done before Chinese New Year, what’s called Chinese New Year.
And they might not. So Chinese New Year is like three weeks where China has a national holiday and no one is, no one can work by law. Those ships go out. nothing’s gonna happen from, I don’t even know, but I think it’s February 1st to like February 25th or something like that.
It’s right around that time of year. if we can’t count our molds made by then we’re, we’re either gonna get them in February or we’re gonna get them in like April 1st.
Tay Musslewhite: Yeah.
Jim: of [00:33:00] that,
Tay Musslewhite: Yeah.
Jim: piece of time period there.
Tay Musslewhite: so
Fans & Field Stories
Tay Musslewhite: one of the things I wanted to ask you about, like when I was looking through all your socials and everything, so, YouTube page has, the swell watercraft, YouTube, it has some great videos on it. the whole design process, things like that. But then like on your Instagram and your Facebook, you have like, your company has fans, like people love your boats.
And then like what are just a couple or two or three of those that really pop into your mind? Like there’s these guys in Puerto Rico, it looks like, and then,
Jim: are the
Tay Musslewhite: you know, what’s some other feedback that you’ve really gotten, from users of your boats?
Jim: Team swell in Puerto Rico. You guys rock my world. I love you guys. These guys are going out every weekend they leave the mainland and go out to some island they all [00:34:00] wet, exit the boat at the same time, and then they pull themselves back in. They do exercises. They play drums and music when they get to the island and they, sing a song and, jam out.
that’s my number one right there. Those guys. and Sergio Rodriguez at the Shaq in Ponce, one of the people who actually stepped up and had the guts to buy these things, sight unseen, basically bring ’em in for his customers and kind of started team swell, really.
So thank you, Sergio.
Tay Musslewhite: And then what kind of feedback have you gotten, From the outfitter perspective, is there anyone who’s using these, in their work where they’ve come from one type of kayak or one brand of kayak and now they’re in the swell and they’re like, Hey, this is awesome.
Jim: I think it, it’s been a bit of a struggle to introduce my kayaks into a lot of these retail environments because they’re heavily filled [00:35:00] up with x percentage of fishing kayaks, X percentage of wreck kayaks, a couple canoes, maybe a couple thermoform sea kayaks or something. And then I’m coming in with these facet on tops and they don’t have. open money to buy a new category, right? So it’s almost
Tay Musslewhite: Yeah.
Jim: are, even though Nehemiah was doing his thing in the eighties a lot of these boats were there, they’ve all been discontinued. And so it’s like I’m coming from a whole new perspective of fast and maneuverable, whereas everything has gone to this super big clumsy standup and fish off the deck type of kayaks.
Tay Musslewhite: Yeah.
Jim: I had a customer in New York City once and he was six foot five, so I really couldn’t answer the question, can you fit in the kayak?
Tay Musslewhite: Yeah.
Jim: what’s your end seam? So said, you got a 36 inch seam. I can fit you in this boat, but we need to get together to prove [00:36:00] it. why would you buy it if you can’t
Tay Musslewhite: Yeah.
Jim: Where do you shop? I shop at the dinghy shop in Long Island.
Tay Musslewhite: Yeah.
Jim: these guys up and they got this huge history and great boats and great products.
Sailboats, sailboat lessons, like got the yin yang, got the water. seemed super cool. And so I call the guy up and he’s like, no, I don’t know what swell watercraft is, I’m one of the guys who
Tay Musslewhite: Yeah.
Jim: Yes. I never heard of you. Okay. Pull up my website. He goes, oh, that’s interesting. That’s interesting. I I like that. Your idea seems spot on. I said to him, well, listen, I got a guy who wants a boat. I’m willing to drive to New York City to meet you and we’ll see if this guy fits in the boat. Right. And then you can try it. You try my boat. I almost feel semi emotional talking about it.
Tay Musslewhite: Yeah.
Jim: I did go [00:37:00] in there and it’s funny that I didn’t tell him what time I was gonna arrive. I told him what day, but I got there and then the six foot five guy showed up within 10 minutes.
Tay Musslewhite: Wow.
Jim: He tried the 16 and the 14.
He took them both out, wanted the 14 super stoked. Big fan to this day. The guy’s bought like a lot of accessories off my website, so I’ve commun, I communicate with a lot of these customers for, just kind of an ongoing I swear. So turns out the head instructor, the guy that I talked to on originally on the phone is like, I love this kayak. I love it. I was like, yeah, I mean, you would take it out for your personal use. And he is like, no, he’s a Greenland style kayaker. Like he’s got a Greenland paddle, he’s got a, a freaking four thou, $4,500, 18 pound Greenland boat. But he would, doesn’t like rudders and he loves my boat for all of his instructional [00:38:00] needs. And then all of a sudden I’m pushing a lot of boats through that guy’s shop because he’s pushing all kinds of people in the direction of. Of, of my boats with demos, they’re on the water. Everybody tries it
Tay Musslewhite: Yeah.
Jim: buy it there. And so the proof’s in the pudding. And I’ve had to do similar things in other cities like Kansas City and make special deals and drive all the way there and meet them and shake their hand.
And that’s how I’ve opened up a few really good shops.
Tay Musslewhite: Yeah.
Jim: I’m sort of essential to that store at least semi essential at this time,
Tay Musslewhite: That’s amazing. So a guy six five calls you wondering if he can fit in the boat. There’s no place for him to demo the boat. You ask him where he shops for his stuff. He tells you the story. You get in touch with the store and. You drive to New York [00:39:00] City so that this guy can demo the boat, but then that turns into a great account for you.
Jim: Yeah.
Tay Musslewhite: That’s amazing.
Jim: day I show up the head instructor loves the boat, and then the owner takes me to the side and I never even know there was an owner, at this point. he’s this old guy and he says, Hey, no owner of any company has been here in 25 years, so you’re the first. So I knew I was in at that
Tay Musslewhite: Yeah.
Jim: right? Because I’d sold the kayak, I’d converted the head instructor, the head buyer of the products, and the owner was like. This is kind of what I wanted to see,
Tay Musslewhite: Yeah.
Jim: like, you gotta hire a sales rep. You gotta hire a sales rep in this territory. And at this point, I have one that’s of close confidant and friend to this guy. So things are
Tay Musslewhite: Sweet. That’s awesome.
Sales Strategy & Building Accounts
Tay Musslewhite: So let’s talk now that you’re into sale, the sales side, like when you think about your [00:40:00] business, like what’s the core thing that makes your business work for you? Like what’s the thing that pops into your mind when you think swell watercraft?
Jim: well. Honest to God, it’s kind of gonna go back to day one again, Adam,
Tay Musslewhite: Yeah.
Jim: Tim and I that. There’s a whole contingent of paddlers out there that don’t like cockpit kayaks, or they don’t like folding their legs inside of ’em,
Tay Musslewhite: Yeah.
Jim: And that these people were contacting Tim on the phone and through email, some of these people were kayak dealers or sales reps or just people in the marketplace saying, Hey, this is needed. And we were speak, he was speaking the truth on day one, that that was needed. And so I’m filling this niche that nobody else is doing.
And so people are calling me and I can [00:41:00] barely have the conversation about the competitive. And sometimes it’s like, Hey, well, Will this hold me? Is this, is this gonna have enough weight capacity for me? Or is this, we can do some numbers like that, but essentially it’s not like how about you versus the wilderness systems?
Tarpon one 40? It’s like, that’s probably like closest competition. It’s like people don’t even, they’re so different. my thing is, is so much more like a sea kayak, a maneuverable kayak, a kayak that turns kayak, that if you’ve got a crosswind and you have to, cock the kayak with your knees or whatever and paddle into it that way, no problem. Whereas all these other sit on tops are just, all the corners have been rounded off and they’re made for. Everybody in the world, including 285 pound dudes who’ve never paddled once in their life. And it’s like [00:42:00] you’ve taken all the performance out, you’ve dumbed it down.
Tay Musslewhite: Yeah,
Jim: and
Tay Musslewhite: The thing’s not gonna tip over,
Jim: yeah,
Tay Musslewhite: but it’s certainly not gonna remind you of, any sort of sea kayak.
Jim: you’re, when you’re offshore and the wind is blowing out to sea, not going to get back to land in these other boats. the critical thing that, especially the outfitter series, especially the solo and duoOkay, you’re out on a tour and you’ve got some people who don’t know how to paddle, right?
Tay Musslewhite: Yeah.
Jim: they have gotta get themselves back to shore in an offshore breeze side wind and all that stuff. You have to make a boat that has a little bit of athletic prowess to it order for
Tay Musslewhite: Yeah.
Jim: to overcome those conditions,
Tay Musslewhite: Yep.
Jim: And that’s
Tay Musslewhite: [00:43:00] Yeah.
Jim: where people don’t think about that. Believe me. think
Tay Musslewhite: Oh yeah.
Jim: Professionals know,
Tay Musslewhite: Yeah.
Jim: People who buy kayaks just ask questions about stability and there’s all kinds of stability, right.
Tay Musslewhite: Yeah.
Jim: at all. and then you go to the specialty shop and the things that look like the Walmart kayaks will save your life. it’s a very deceptive world out there in kayaks.
Tay Musslewhite: Huh.
Jim: are trying to stay safe,
Tay Musslewhite: and then I’m trying to think of the tagline for your swell kayak exit speed.
Jim: speed, comfort, stability,
Tay Musslewhite: yeah. And then as we kinda wrap up, what are some of the, I mean, you’ve talked about like literally driving to New York City so someone can demo your kayak.
Jim: The
Tay Musslewhite: what are the
Jim: wondering the whole time, why am I doing this?
Tay Musslewhite: Yeah,
Jim: out, [00:44:00] and it became a template me the future to go,
Tay Musslewhite: Yeah.
Jim: Hey Geos man, I know you guys aren’t interested, but I’m coming in anyway. And
Tay Musslewhite: Yep.
Jim: I’m leaving the boat there when I get there and we’re gonna sell it.
Tay Musslewhite: Yep.
Jim: and it
Tay Musslewhite: What, what? And then so social media, your website cultivating accounts, like what’s kind of the backbone of your business. Like, how are you making it work? Like what, what is, those levers that you push when it’s time to sell boats? Like, what are you doing?
Jim: Good question. I think that it’s been bit of a transition and I would have to step back and say that 2024, I mean the entire year was really dedicated to manufacturing the product, learning how that happens, and learning how to mess up fix it [00:45:00] and,
Tay Musslewhite: yeah.
Jim: Learning about rotational molding. the guys I’ve learned rotational molding from, were always like, Hey, it’s a voodoo science and something bad would happen to one of my cos. And then I’d be like, why did that happen? And somebody who had way more experience than I’ll ever have, I’ll go to the grave and this guy has more experience, like, I don’t know. And you could tell like he had a plan to fix it though. He didn’t care why it did what it did. He was just gonna take step A. If that didn’t work, he’d take step B. if that didn’t work, he’d take step C. And then eventually this problem would iron itself out.
That’s what I do now,
Tay Musslewhite: so learning that art.
Jim: They, sometimes you come up with a theory, sometimes you don’t.
Tay Musslewhite: Yeah,
Jim: have to fix it.
Tay Musslewhite: yeah,
Jim: and expect a different result.
Tay Musslewhite: yeah,
Jim: do it. Like, it’s somewhere
Tay Musslewhite: yeah,
Jim: you don’t psychoanalyze every little problem, but at the same time, you react to [00:46:00] every problem.
Tay Musslewhite: And so real proactive.
Jim: now we’re in 2025 and, I’ve had a little more time to consider marketing and get back into the swing of things. I think what’s really important for us is to expand that retail base, to have
Tay Musslewhite: Yeah.
Jim: we’ve got sales reps that we’ve hired in Mid-Atlantic, in Southeast and in the West. And I really like the idea of those guys cultivating, helping me cultivate these relationships expand the business. So the bows are in front of people.
Tay Musslewhite: Yeah.
Jim: there’s like, the Tesla version of selling, which is like, here, it’s on the website.
You can see it. then there’s the
Tay Musslewhite: Yeah.
Jim: set up. Here’s the keys. Take it for a drive. I walk in and I go, what’s that? Oh, that’s a swell watercraft. Scupper 12. Oh shit. That looks like it might be what I want. Take it out, [00:47:00] paddle.
Tay Musslewhite: yeah,
Jim: that’s a different level in paddle sports, especially when you’re charging at the top of the market prices.
Tay Musslewhite: Yeah,
Jim: and I personally love doing the marketing. I love doing the, communicating with the customers. I love doing the videos. I love,
Tay Musslewhite: yeah.
Jim: I can talk to hundreds of people rather than one, like a phone call.
Tay Musslewhite: Yeah.
Jim: but then at the same time, like I think it’s important to try to connect some of these business relationships, with these retailers that hopefully are gonna be with me until the end. Until I die, or until I sell this company, until whatever happens that we can grow together, create a great relationship, and have a certain predictable output of these units every year.
Tay Musslewhite: Yeah.
Jim: then how predictable that?
Tay Musslewhite: Yeah.
Jim: [00:48:00] of course, when you have key retail partners, then they can tell you what they think they’re gonna go through in the next 12 months.
Tay Musslewhite: Yeah. Because it is interesting, like when I think about that, where having your own facility, so you’re vertically integrated, you’re in charge of everything. I always say everything cuts both ways, right? Because when you were having someone else do your manufacturing, you were just another order to them, right?
Whereas now it’s you’re the manufacturer too. You’re not just selling boats, you’re also manufacturing,
Jim: Yep.
Tay Musslewhite: which gives you that freedom and flexibility, but it’s also a whole other responsibility.
Jim: Yeah. I mean a hell of a, a hell of a baptism from 24 to 25 to all the things the building needs that all the parts of all the kayaks. Just balancing everything that we’ve taken [00:49:00] in to this business, in this short amount of time has just been kind of blown up my brain a little bit.
it’s almost hard to maintain information in the way I used to when I was taking less in
Tay Musslewhite: I believe it.
Jim: I was told not to manufacture, I had people who have owned manufacturing that said, you don’t want a manufacturer, it’s gonna make your life hell. it’s gonna be this and that and whatever. And it, it’s made my life crazy, but I love it,
Tay Musslewhite: Yeah,
Jim: I’m on the computer, I’m in the office, but then I’m up, I’m tightening a bolt or something. And I love that aspect of my life now. I love the practical reality that I’m not just a computer jockey a hundred percent of the time and I have to stay on my toes, and work long hours, to maintain all these facets of the business. it’s been fulfilling in its own way.
Tay Musslewhite: Oh yeah.
Jim: don’t have a lot [00:50:00] of room for complaints or depression or
Tay Musslewhite: Yeah.
Jim: that. I’m just move, move, move. And I’ve felt my life shift that way a little
Tay Musslewhite: Yeah,
Jim: since I was an importer. That was kind of in cushy life, right? disappointing too, ’cause I wasn’t being able to get the products. But that I’m doing this I’m just busy all the time and hopefully making little improvements here and there, just constantly. And I love that about my life at, at this stage.
Tay Musslewhite: yeah,
Jim: I’m 80? No.
Okay.
Growth Plans & Wefunder
Tay Musslewhite: So let’s talk future, like earlier you mentioned Wefunder and where are you now with growth plans, Wefunder, things like that.
Jim: We’re on,
Tay Musslewhite: It was a setup.
Jim: we’re on Wefunder um.com right now. swell Watercraft is up there. We’ve we’re in the, haven’t hundred percent launched the raise yet. It’s still in soft launch mode, I think until. [00:51:00] Friday, a couple days from now, it’s gonna actually launch.
Tay Musslewhite: Okay?
Jim: We’re looking to
Tay Musslewhite: Mm-hmm.
Jim: equipment in here. So when we have hatch covers parts of plastic that you end up cutting up and throwing away every single time off every boat, we can recycle
Tay Musslewhite: Yeah.
Jim: turn ’em back into, what is polyethylene resin and make kayaks out of ’em.
Tay Musslewhite: Wow.
Jim: initiate that program into here, into, into swell. And yeah, we launched that Wefunder. I believe it’s in two days. I think it’s on Friday. And just pull up swell watercraft if you go to wefunder.com. You can see our raise we’ve had a lot of customers that have gotten us this 69 grand or whatever, and now we’re gonna put it out on the we under market and hopefully some of those investors want to join us, for the, for the journey. As we kind [00:52:00] of develop this thing into what we hope is kind of the right size business for paddle sports, that is to say we don’t just keep adding on and adding on and adding on till we’re so big and have a down year that we go bankrupt just like everyone else does in this sport. So what we wanna have is, is kind of the perfect size business, the perfect amount of retail partners. So all of ’em have a few hours of territory at least going out.
Tay Musslewhite: Yeah.
Jim: And create a kind of a happy ecosystem here which seemed like a real simple idea in the outset. And I think we’re almost, we’re almost there to completion. The trick will be to humble. Don’t overdo it. over design.
Don’t over produce or put pressure on our [00:53:00] retailers, that kind of stuff. Just cruise at the size that we’re, we’re gonna be at until we have a clear demand to expand or whatever. And that’s kind of where we’re at. So go to wefunder.com, be a part of it. Join us,
Tay Musslewhite: Love it. And like where can everyone find you? Like what are your socials and website and everything like that.
Jim: Swell watercraft.com. You can
Tay Musslewhite: Mm-hmm.
Jim: I’m a big fan of making newsletters, It’s not all about our products and boring stuff.
Tay Musslewhite: I get those emails, they’re, really good, so people should join and,
Jim: Thank you
Tay Musslewhite: yeah.
Jim: Hey, on the marketing side, I just wouldn’t be having any of this stuff, work out as good as I can. I mean, nobody even ever approached me about attaching my CRM to, Google then attaching that back to the website and have it all speak to each other.
And I didn’t even know that kind of stuff was [00:54:00] happening until I met you.
Tay Musslewhite: Yeah.
Jim: I appreciate you getting my marketing straightened out and keeping me on the high road. The other thing is my YouTube channel. And I point
Tay Musslewhite: Yeah.
Jim: there because there’s a lot of information about like how the valves work, rundowns on all the different boats. if you wanna see me and Adam and Tim, actually developing five prototypes of the kayak. That’s probably the best video on there. you can see the initial steps we took and how we got to out of the gate with swell watercraft.
Tay Musslewhite: Yeah, and there’s actually one that I always think of is there’s a video, like in the 14, like going off the beach, hitting some huge waves. And that’s just such a, I mean, I’m thinking, right, right.
Jim: He,
Tay Musslewhite: Like it’s,
Jim: is in a foam prototype, so it’s made outta closed cell
Tay Musslewhite: oh really?
Jim: And he’s sitting on it And catches a wave, [00:55:00] like perfectly and completely noses, dives and pearls. So he jacks the, the back end, straight up in the, in the air.
And it, I just got the best video shot of that ever. So that’s the kind
Tay Musslewhite: It’s a testament to what those boats can do.
Jim: That’s what they’re made for.
Tay Musslewhite: Yeah, so people can find you swell watercraft.com. YouTube as swell Watercraft. Instagram swell watercraft. Facebook swell watercraft.
Jim: you can visit us in Ellsworth Iowa, right off I 35, about an hour north of I 80. If you’re coming across 80, head north on I 35 towards Minneapolis. You’ll see us across the street from a love’s truck stop.
Tay Musslewhite: Great.
Jim: We just kind of invite anybody, just stop in and check out what we do.
We’re gonna give you 15, 20 minutes. We’re gonna show you around and, love that more than anything. All my employees love it. So drop in and see us. we get lonely out [00:56:00] here. It’s a very small town, 400 people. So we’re out in the middle of the corn fields making amazing kayaks and we’ll show you guys how to do it.
Come see us.
Tay Musslewhite: Love it. To kinda wrap up, just from an outsider’s perspective, like when I think about your business like. You’re American made, you’re literally building kayaks in Iowa. You go to your socials and you have raving fans about your boats. And then like when you tell that story of going to New York and then the, you know, first off, you think about the people that you mentioned in Puerto Rico.
team swell, loving these boats, becoming raving fans. Then you talk about going to New York and you were trying to sell one kayak to one guy, and the guy who leads tours is like, oh my gosh, this, this is perfect for these tours. [00:57:00] I mean, and then, then you talk about like we funder, where people can actually own a part of your business.
Jim: Yeah.
Tay Musslewhite: obviously I know the terms are on Wefunder about everything that people get from joining, but like it’s super cool that American made kayaks and people can go own part of your business and help your expansion to continuing to meet these needs that are in the marketplace for the boats that you’re making.
Jim: think that’s, if you want in on small American manufacturing you gotta lean into it. You gotta do it yourself. And I think you gotta point the camera at yourself and socially blast all that out there and let people know what you’re doing and you, you get a really good response. I mean, thing I was gonna throw in, ’cause you’re just talking about that, is that the instructor I was talking to on the phone, I was like, Hey, I’m gonna come visit you guys [00:58:00] and, the next day he goes the owner said you can’t come visit us. But then when I told him, you own the company, he said, you can come visit us. They weren’t even gonna let a sales rep from swell watercraft visit them. Okay? But if the owner was gonna, because the owner would not just ’cause the owner, ’cause the owner would drive from Iowa to New York,
Tay Musslewhite: Yeah.
Jim: who the hell is this guy? Okay, we’ll see him.
Tay Musslewhite: Yeah.
Jim: then, they weren’t gonna even look at it. Now, that’s my biggest backer. They’re really important to me with the outfitter series, things like that. So relationships grow from, from things like that. And sometimes you gotta force your way in. So te thanks for having me today, man.
Tay Musslewhite: Hey, thanks for your time, Jim, and to your continued success I love the story and as you know, I am right there doing everything I can rooting for you.
Jim: I love Kimberlite Digital Marketing too, and I appreciate your partnership in this endeavor,
Tay Musslewhite: Yes, sir. [00:59:00] Thanks a lot for your time, Jim,